Which is better IRCXPro or MS Exchange Chat Serv?

[Armstrong]

I'm working on Viper Chat Control, which is similar to msn chat control, but it will for public ircx networks. Moreover, it is more suitable for developers as it's a chat client framework i.e. a developer can just add it to a form and add more features, develop an admin bot etc... ViperBot 3.9 is also based viper chat control.It's beta test version will be released next month.

At the moment it's being built and tested on ircxPro lite. That means it needs to be adjusted to any differences in MS Exchange Server and that could take sometime after it's official release.

So which server you want me to build and test?
Which server is better?
Which server has the following feature?
1. Masks IP... it can hash IP address.
2. Lists room names dynamically to a webpage... by storing roomnames to a database or some other means. /list <- that doesn't count.
3. Extensible. Developers can develop add ons to add more features including adding more channel and user modes.

Best Regards.

[TWWOTN]

As a framework for a Visual Basic Client?
i mean framework for just Visual basic or any language you can make a bot in?

[Armstrong]

A framework for building irc clients in any language that support activex controls (VB, VC++, BC++, BCB, Delphi, ...)

[Trulean]

It's a really tough choice when it comes along "ease of use", but then you have to take in account that security is the primary and foundating layer to base *most* things upon in the internet world. Now here's where you break them down and decide which would be the better protocol all-round.

IRCX Pro has alot of extra features, it reminds me more of IRCX+IRCD (because of the added services-EG: memoserv/nickserv/ect). It has IP masking, and some other features and commands for Admins/IRCOPs to use on the server. However, even though it's feature enriched, it lacks the security to really be run on a large server at the moment. It's a memory resource hog, even if you close the IRCX Pro control panel and keep the server running; it's still eating up memory. Security-wise, it tends to have more exploits than any known chat software that I've seen. Looking around for exploits (just to compare), there are one or two exploitable tutorials on how to make yourself a Global Admin/Admin. Also, it's easy to crash a computer that's using IRCX Pro. Even server-based Operating Systems cannot control the load management properly for some reason.

Exchange Server IRCX (recent version 6.0) tends to be more stable and security-savvy. It can mask your IP with the proper precautions and configurations. It can also list to a database (again, with proper configurations). As for developmentation, it's possible but it's very annoying. Most Exchange Servers can support up to 20,000 users or more (depending on the computer, and the load of the server). Doesn't crash easily at all either.

[vip]

Make it an ircd client... more people use it.

[webagent]

I dont know wich to take, I would say exchange server because microsoft has a bigger market, so perhaps more people that use IRCX, but not that I know any of the quality.. well yeah we use it as exchange server lol.. not to chat with but to email (outlook)

www.microsoft.com/exchange/techinfo/administration/2000/Chat.asp

and I found a review on IRCXpro too, but it's always like they try to sell it lol:

www.serverwatch.com/stypes/servers/article.php/17093_1501261 (interesting site btw)

[Cypher]

MS Exchange Chat Server must be better than ircxpro. ircxpro has way too many exploits. ive seen many people get op status and many crashed pcs through it. well not quite saw the pcs crash .

[NightStorm]

Well, lets see. Here's my ramble. Sorry for the length, but just wanted to give an open idea on everything.
As an exchange 2000 license holder, I've had the opportunity to play around with Exchange quite a bit before offering up an IP to David. I've also got over 2 years working with UnrealIRCD, and a year working with IRCPlus (which morphed into IRCXPro). Here's what I've come across in that time.
Firstly, all the servers will mask the IPs, if configured properly.

Cost
Exchange. Well, there's the cost. $5000+ US for a 20-user license. This allows unlimited number of chat connections... they say that one should not try to push past 20,000, but that the server would still handle it.
IRCXPro. £499.95 for 1000 concurrent users.
UnrealIRCD. Free.
Requirements
Exchange. Windows 2000 Server as a minimum operating system. Prefer ISDN or higher for a connection speed. Mimimum system requirements for OS is all that's needed to handle Exchange.
IRCXPro. Windows. It suggests a server-based platform, but not absolutely necessary to run the program (but one would be insane to do so on anything BUT a server platform).
UnrealIRCD. Anything. Unix, or Windows. Windows version is not important, either. As long as you can edit a config file, you can run it.
Pros
Exchange. 20,000 users is a lot. Load ballance and stability is amazing. I managed to load 300 clones onto one of my servers, and the lag never increased. Nor did the instability of the server. Exchange is the closest one will get to MSN-like chat without actually having to log onto MSN. The familiarity and commands are practically identical. Plus, the Exchange IRCX commands are strait from the IRCX manual, and are 95% universal on all other IRCX servers. If you have 5 IPs on one server, you can run 5 individual instances of Exchange IRCX on that computer, and never worry about your task bar filling up with icons, or conflicting processes. With one click, security can be set that when X users connect, the server creates a fake lag of X seconds for all other connects, joins, parts, nick changes, messanges, and so on. A wonderful option to prevent connect-flooding.
IRCXPro. Anyone and their monkey can run IRCXPro. Hell, the monkey could hold an oline. The GUI that is included allows total control of everything from the server settings to nicknames and channels to security... all in one little crammed window. The GUI also can be downloaded and run independantly on a different computer, to allow remote administration by another admi (is this good, or bad?). The intigration of IRCD-like services allows for nickname and channel security, as well as channel registration on the fly.
UnrealIRCD. Wow. Stability, options, linking, and services on request (requires knowledge of linking). olines are controlled right in the unrealircd.conf file, as well as pretty much everything else you can dream of (pre-3.1.4 included several files that needed to be edited in order for Unreal to function). Pretty much every command needed by a system operator is supported, and help is included right on the server via /helpop. Plus, this is yet the only one that can be run from a shell for under $30 a month.
Cons
Exchange. You need to have a brain in order to know how to properly configure and run Exchange IRCX. You also need to know what you are doing in order to maintain the server as a system administrator. Many options require direct control through the Windows MMC snapin, which would only be accessable by one person. Nickname security is lax, and knowing whether a person is really who they say they are depends on their hostmask.
IRCXPro. 500 users connect at once, and you're out one system. IRCXPro fails in it's stability and load ballancing, and it is because of this alone that IRCXPro falls below the others. It's nice for a few friends to screw around on, but to put it out onto the Global web, and not have a server that can handle a few hundred people coming and going at once is insane. The security for IRCXPro is lacking as well... shown by it even allowing 500 connections in a period of a few seconds. And (this is a big one to me), as stated above, anyone and their monkey can run this program. That leaves an awful big hole open. Someone with an oline is powerful enough... someone with no clue what they are doing running around with an oline is outright dangerous... both to the users, to the server, and to the box it's running on. On top of it all, how many servers do you see out there are running IRCXPro?
UnrealIRCD. Hmm... IRCD is nice. I won't lie. I like IRCD quite a bit. It's stable (in the right enviornment), it comes with whatever services the administrator chooses to link to it (I currently am running Auspice on mine, and it gives me literal full control over my server), and it has great control. Cons? You need to know what the hell you are doing in order to set it up. It's not as simple as answering a few questions, and clicking on "go". It takes knowledge of C++ coding, and in most cases, an idea of how to navigate around a unix shell. Most copies (non-Windows, and lets be honest... no one would want to run IRCD on windows unless they're running a server OS anyway) require an idea of how to compile a server, and how to edit text files through telnet. Unreal is buggy.. I'm a member of their mailing lists, and new bugs are constantly coming out... but since Unreal is opensource, it's always leaving room for improvement. Users who have only ever known MSN or IRCX would be lost on Unreal. And in most cases, that would go vice versa as well.
Conclusion
All in all... want to build a copy of Viper that would appeal to the most MSN users, for non-MSN servers? Go with Exchange.
Want to build a Viper that would be used by most users not from MSN? Unreal is going to be the biggest market you'll come across. Cause lets be honest... how many shells do you know of that support IRCX or a IRCx/d that requires a Windows GUI program to control (not many shells or hosts will support Terminal services, as well as let you run processes on them). You decide... but I say Exchange.

Just my 49 cents (I think I overshot the 2 cents a while ago).

[Armstrong]

i can't find the documentation for building an addon for msn exchange chat server. If it's possible I'll build an addon that will store the room info to MySQL database. Thus, enabling server owners to dynamically list user created rooms.

edit = if this type of addon is not already available.

[Obnortor]

Trulean said:

Looking around for exploits (just to compare), there are one or two exploitable tutorials on how to make yourself a Global Admin/Admin.

Where can I find these exploits for ircxpro?

Thanks in advance...

[ik000ike]

hiya go for the ircxpro server i like it ;D i hpoe viper will have the modes for a adminastrator too because i am 1 on a ircxpro server if you need a extra person to do you testing i would be happy to do it because i have lots of free time ( let say 12 hours a day )

[Liam]

Trulean said:

However, even though it's feature enriched, it lacks the security to really be run on a large server at the moment. It's a memory resource hog, even if you close the IRCX Pro control panel and keep the server running; it's still eating up memory. Security-wise, it tends to have more exploits than any known chat software that I've seen. Looking around for exploits (just to compare), there are one or two exploitable tutorials on how to make yourself a Global Admin/Admin. Also, it's easy to crash a computer that's using IRCX Pro. Even server-based Operating Systems cannot control the load management properly for some reason.

IRCXpro 1.0 did have load balancing issues, 1.1 has cleared up this and runs about 25% faster than 1.1 and as for exploits, most of these have been secured.

[Oddman]

Just thought I'd show Liam all your claims of apparant exploits...

Regards,
Oddman.

[Trulean]

0ddman, I'm not sure which is funnier..Having Liam post nearly 8 months after my original message, or Obnorter asking for the exploits. In any case, it is nice to have Liam respond (even though it's quite late).

Liam, take in consideration that many of the users that are running networks with IRCxPro (from the MSN "network") are using illegal copies of IRCxPro 1.1 (cracked or patched versions of the software). As you should be more than aware, since it is an illegal application ... you or your partners wouldn't give any support to those that are using an illegal version that may have attached virii or other malicious "addons"; at least, I sure hope not. IRCxPro 1.1 still has load balancing issues as the software is typically being excuted on an Operating System that's not meant for the traffic or load that an IRC server can give to a computer (eg: Personal Computers/ Windows XP- 9x).

Exploits, I haven't tested IRCxPro 1.1 as I've not in the mood to dig for things that are useless for me. I may ask around to those who have time for useless projects, and will probably PM you if I run into any other exploits post-1.1 (IRCxPro) as it seems you were already aware of most of the IRCxPro exploits (1.0).